Page 2 of 3
FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: TPG: Week 31- Barri Lang

  1. BarriLang Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenForbes View Post
    No, you didn't. You specifically state he's looking at Overall Man.

    What I'm getting at is this: watch what you have your characters do. You don't want to have your man character's back to the reader for no good reason. Unless it's for a dramatic purpose, there are few good reasons to have your character's back to the reader.
    Doh!



  2. BarriLang Guest

    Just wanted to say thanks to Calvin, Tyler and Adam for your comments. All show the same thing. We're learning! :-) It's been a hard and sometimes painfull process but we're getting there.

    I'd be interested to know what Steve thinks about Calvin's comments on the padding. I was trying to give each issue the right kinda pace. Time for a Madelf Steve debate?

    I've had an artist working on the pages 1-5 (a pretty close version to this actualy) and as Steve said would happen, the panel counts have varied slightly due to his input.



  3. CalvinCamp Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by BarriLang View Post
    Time for a Madelf Steve debate?
    Well, it is a Friday.



  4. StevenForbes Guest

    Fine, I'll play along. However, I also have work tonight. Look for it in the morning.



  5. AdamH Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by madelf View Post
    I like the story (what there was of it, so far), but that was a lot of pages to show very little. If Steven isn't going to call it out as padded, I'll go ahead and do it. Page one was pretty good. What was shown on page two wasn't really deserving of a splash page (but it was a credits page, so I guess there's at least some traditional justification for it). Page three wastes five panels on stuff that could have been done in two (three if you want to throw in the establishing shot from page two). Page four is loaded up with nine panels that could have been three or four. Page five, again, was not too bad. Overall, I think this probably could have been done in three pages, maybe three and a half, and been better off for it.
    I'm going to take a swing at this. I don't think Barri's padding his script. Padding to me gives the connotation that he knows what he has isn't long enough to fill out X amount of pages, maybe only X amount of pages - 10. So, he stretches scenes out longer than they need to be and intercuts to things that have no relevance to the actual story.

    As the script could be accused, and rightly so, of playing the captain obvious card, I don't think this was done intentionally to stretch out the aforementioned script. I do think Barri's learning, like a lot of us, to use his real estate wisely.

    Writing scripts for few years now, I've noticed my scripts getting more to the point, but I still have a long way to go. A big saying for me, as far as scripting goes is: Real Estate is at a premium so use it wisely. AKA the less time and space you use to get across one idea, the more time and space you have to get across another idea. Cut the fat, boil your comic down to the bare essentials.

    Let's boil down page 1. 1) Man is walking alone 2) Killer is stalking him 3) Man sees killer, wigs out 4) Man's running from killer 5) Man's like "Oh shit, don't eat my spleen!" CHOMP!

    Let's boil it down again (this is interpretative at this point). We want a page showing a man being stalked, then attacked. 2 actions, we could do this in 2 panels.

    Panel 1: Man is alone on a sidewalk. Man thinks he's being stalked. He's spun around on his possibly imaginary stalker.

    Man: I know you've been stalking me for 2 blocks! I'm on to you pal!

    Panel 2: Man has spun back around, we see a ravenous Nacho Cheese Dorito chip with razor sharp fangs closing in on the man.

    Nacho Cheese Dorito: GRRRRR!
    Man: AHHHHH!

    It's all about using your real estate (the amount of panels and pages you have available to you) to its fullest. The fewest amount of panels needed to get your idea, plot point, character introduction, etc. across.

    That's my interpretation, and believe me, I've been there and still hit that point once, twice, or a bajillion times in every script.



  6. BarriLang Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamH View Post
    Panel 1: Man is alone on a sidewalk. Man thinks he's being stalked. He's spun around on his possibly imaginary stalker.

    Man: I know you've been stalking me for 2 blocks! I'm on to you pal!

    Panel 2: Man has spun back around, we see a ravenous Nacho Cheese Dorito chip with razor sharp fangs closing in on the man.

    Nacho Cheese Dorito: GRRRRR!
    Man: AHHHHH!

    It's all about using your real estate (the amount of panels and pages you have available to you) to its fullest. The fewest amount of panels needed to get your idea, plot point, character introduction, etc. across.
    I see your point about getting what you need to say in the fewest amount of panels but I can't say I 100% agree. I totally agree that using panels to just to pad and fill space is bad but panel count can also be used to draw a scene out in order to create tension or to create a sense of pace. What I try to do (and Steve will no doubt tear me down) is look at the scene I'm writing and consider the "pace" of it. Building tension can take time, I'm not saying pages and pages of panels, but a few more than you'd usually use. If you want the scene to whip along you take fewer panels so the eye travels more quickly over the page.

    WIth your 2 panel example it gets to the point quickly but there's no suspense. What I've tried (and possibly missed) to do with my page was A) have a seemingly inocent scene accelerate into a slightly more frantic scene B) to not show any actual kill on page 1 so that I get a good page turn and also give an introduction to Dalgleish. I also like the leave early arrive late tactic of page 1 and 2. We leave early on page 1 missing the act of killing (but expecting to see it as we turn the page) but ariving late on Page 2 the man's already dead and the police (+ SAS LT Dalgleish) are already on the scene.



  7. StevenForbes Guest

    Okay, after looking at it again, I'm not going to say that Calvin is wrong, I'm just saying that he's looking at it a little differently.

    Now, don't get me wrong. This is what I want ALL of you to do. It gets you thinking about what you're doing, and why you're doing it. It should hopefully translate to your own scripts.

    That being the case, I find nothing really wrong with the pacing here. Sure, a couple of panels here and there could have been combined, but don't forget, some panels also need to be separated.

    (And Calvin, for the record, 3.5 pages is really 4 pages.)

    The first page needs two panels added to it, which would bump it up to seven. (Or, it could be reworked to be a little different, and still work within the panel count for the page.)

    The splash page works, in both use and placement.

    Page 3 has the most problems. In re-dialoguing that page, it may also come down to three or four panels.

    Page 4 could probably be reduced to six or seven panels.

    I think the panel count for the 9 panel page is just a tad excessive, and probably could be cut down to 5 panels, but here's the thing: I understood what he was trying to do with it. The panel breaks, the gutters, created something of a staccato effect that worked for me. I could see the pauses, and the reasons for them. It made it seem more formal for me. For that page, I'd personally like to see it at 7, but 8 works, also.

    So, like I said, Calvin's not wrong--he's just looking at it differently.



  8. CalvinCamp Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenForbes View Post
    (And Calvin, for the record, 3.5 pages is really 4 pages.)
    Yes. But 3.5 pages is 4 pages with room left over for more story. It's a distinction that matters, I think.

    The first page needs two panels added to it, which would bump it up to seven. (Or, it could be reworked to be a little different, and still work within the panel count for the page.)
    I thought the first page was relatively fine. I think it'd be fine with a couple more panels too. That's the place where you use the slower pace to build tension. It's working there.

    The splash page works, in both use and placement.
    As I noted, there is a basis in tradition, but I didn't think what was being shown needed that much real estate to show it. I don't really have a problem with it, it's just not what I'd do (looking at it differently, as Steven said). What I'd do is put the title and credits (and the Churchill quote) on the inside front cover, then just use the scene from the splash as an establishing shot on the following page.

    Page 3 has the most problems. In re-dialoguing that page, it may also come down to three or four panels.
    This is also where I saw the most problems. But I think four panels is still excessive. This isn't a tense scene, there's not much really happening, and no reason to build tension here. This whole page (and page 2) could be shown in three panels (so two panels if you leave the splash). Lets, for the sake of example, say you leave the splash as is. If you do, I'd take the gist of the dialogue from page 3, panel 1, and move it to the splash page - so there's something there more profound than, "Shit".

    Then I'd do page three like this...

    Panel 1
    Make the scene for this the same one you called for in your first panel, with Dalgleish crouched down next to the forensics guy. The forensics guy reaching for something on the body.

    Overall man
    Look, sir.

    Panel 2
    Similar to panel 1, but pull back so we can see the Land Rover pulling up. Forensics guy is holding up the tuft of hair to show Dalgleish, but Dalgleish is looking over at the Land Rover.

    Dalgleish
    Bag it and send it for examination.

    Dalgleish
    I want the evidence gathered and this place sterilized within the next 2 hours.

    (Page three is done in two panels. On to your story from page 4)

    Panel 3
    Close shot. Looking towards the land rover as Dalgleish leans against it.

    Panel 4
    As above except the rear window has been lowered most of the way. We cannot see the mystery person inside. Dalgleish looks left, checking the surroundings.

    Dalgleish
    It’s like the rest. Whoever attacked the boy was a carrier.

    Mystery Person
    Any chance it spread to the victim?

    Panel 5
    As above. Dalgleish looks right, checking the surroundings.

    Dalgleish
    No, sir, the victim bled out after the attack.

    Mystery Woman
    Good, good. At least the infection isn’t spreading.

    Panel 6
    As above but Dalgleish now has both hands on the body of the car and is looking right into the car.

    Dalgleish
    I’m afraid that’s not the case. The infected get up and walk away. All we find are leftovers.

    Mystery Woman
    Very well, Lieutenant Dalgleish. You may continue your investigation.

    Panel 7
    Looking from behind Dalgleish and up the road we watch the car pulling away from the scene. Dalgleish is saluting the closed window where the Mystery Woman was.

    Dalgleish
    Sir.

    Then I'd say go on into your page 5 (except that it'd now be page 4) more or less as written.

    So that's how I'd do it, Barri. But I'm not writing it. You are. I'm not even the guy you sent it to for an edit/critique. So all I can do is offer an opinion, and let you see if there's any value in it. And, just to be clear, I don't think it's remotely bad the way you have it. It's really quite good - I'd read it. I just think it could be... streamlined a bit.

    Edit:
    Based on Adam's interpretation of "padding" I'll allow that may not have been the best word to use, or even a good one. I didn't get the sense that Barri was intentionally stretching things. I just felt the amount of story presented was taking up more space than it needed to.
    Last edited by CalvinCamp; Saturday, August 22, 2009 at 09:03 PM.



  9. BarriLang Guest

    That's the best thing about the proving grounds. We all reflect on what Steve has said and hopefully improve as writers.

    These 1st 5 pages are actually drawn (got them back from the inker ther other day) And I am considering getting the artist to have a second stab at a re-written page 3. Dialogue is defo gonna change. As well as get Dalgleishe's (if I keep as Dalgleish) name in there before page 4 and cut out the Captain Obvious stuff :-)

    Oh and I forgot to thank Steve too for taking the time to read it and post the comments.



  10. Dungbeetle Guest

    As the resident nooblurker I'll just say thanks again for the insights here... my worthless 2 pence would go as follows:


    Panel 2
    Tighter view of the stranger, showing pallid skin and dark eyes. (Better! Good job!)

    Panel 3
    Close up of the strangers face. Straight faced with no emotion. (Now it’s overkill.)

    Panel 4
    As above but the face is now smiling a sickly smile.

    ^ Above, if you want the smile on panel 4, why not direct the artist to not show the stranger's mouth until that panel? How about keeping the same amount of panels but instead of the same face with a changing expression, only show small fragments of the character? That's how a lot of horror film editing works - giving people pieces of the whole and letting the subconcious glue it together messily and to horrific effect (Forby, put the meat cleaver down. I KNOW we're not making movies.). It's also, coincidentally, how they edit together supposedly sexy music videos and the like - fetishized shots of certain body parts, shown for less time than you'd like to see them. Same "join the dots" area of your brain at work there, too. If this guy's got a hood on, to hide his face, then why are we privvy to it for so long?



Page 2 of 3
FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Archive Forums (For Archive Purposes only): General Comics Discussion, Original Works, It's Clobberin' Time, Respect Threads, P'wned, General Chat, Beat Down, The Champagne Room (Mature), Marvel News UP TO April 2011 (See the latest news here), DC News UP TO April 2011 (See the latest news here), DC News UP TO April 2011 (See the latest news here), Archie News UP TO April 2011 (See the latest news here), Comic Book Vitamins (See the latest columns here), Comics Are For People (See the latest columns here), Comics & Cinema (See the latest columns here), Comics Pro Prep (See the latest columns here), Bolts & Nuts (See the latest columns here), Seb-Standard (See the latest columns here), Webcomics You Should Be Reading (See the latest columns here), Development Hell (See the latest columns here), The Proving Grounds (See the latest columns here), Pixels Per Inch (See the latest columns here), Bargain Bin Gold (See the latest columns here), Dead Tuesday (See the latest columns here), Have You Considered... (See the latest columns here), Comic Book Vitamins (See the latest columns here)
Project Fanboy is now Fanboy Buzz.
Fanboy Buzz is home to Comic Book News, Comic Book Reviews, Comic Book Columns, Comic Book Forums and Comic Book Podcast
Check out some of our past podcast hosts doing podcasts at GonnaGeek.com. Sci-Fi, Tech, Gaming, Comics and More!