Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Week 33 - Steven Forbes (edited by Calvin Camp)

  1. CalvinCamp Guest

    Week 33 - Steven Forbes (edited by Calvin Camp)

    Okay, guys. Itís the Friday youíve all been waiting for. Itís Stevenís script thatís up against the red font of doom this time.

    Funny thing isÖ it shouldnít be.

    See, I think Steven was messing with me. He sent me this in .doc format (instead of .rtf or .odt) thereby violating his own rules for TPG submissions. I thought about just ignoring him, not responding, but figured, nahÖ Iíve been looking forward to this too much. But if he didnít think Iíd call him on it, he ought to know me better than that by now.

    Just to be clear, Iíve joked about this being ďpayback,Ē but I hope everyone realizes that was just a joke. Thatís not how I approached this at all. Steven has been nothing but good to me, so I just went in trying to do the best job of editing I could and hoping I could at least find some problems to point out. Fortunately for me, Steven sent me an older script that he would be reworking before going forward with it Ė that way I was able to actually find things to tear into.

    So letís see what it looks likeÖ

    Page 1

    PANEL 1
    It is nighttime, out in the woods. This is pre-historic times, so there is not going to be anything modern around. We're going back to the first days of man, so this can look as exotic as you want. There is a fire going at the mouth of a cave, with cave-men (spellchecker says "cavemen") and women all around it. It's the summer, so the fire is more for light than for anything else. It doesn't have to be huge- just keep the immediate shadows at bay. This is a medium view. There is a cave-man (caveman) - obviously the leader- wearing a couple of furs. He is young and strong. He is looking off to a hill in the distance, where a lone figure can be seen silhouetted against the moon. No text.

    How is it obvious who is the leader? He's wearing a couple of furs, so does that mean the others are naked? Does he have any sort of decoration - a headdress, a necklace of wolf teeth, anything to set him apart from the others? Is everyone else looking at him, rapt with attention? The reader needs some visual clues if you want them to figure this out.

    What about the silhouetted figure? Is he in furs? How is he standing? What build - short, tall, skinny, fat, muscular? Even for a silhouette, if you want him shown clearly enough to be recognizable as a person, then the artist needs to know what he looks like, what he's wearing, and what he's doing - or it could come out wrong.


    Panel 2
    Moving past the tribe around the fire, we are on the hill, coming up behind the lone figure. We can just make out that he is an old man, and he holds a walking staff. The staff is crooked and gnarled. He is looking at the moon, which is mostly full. There are musical lines- bass cleff staff (found here: http://www.notationmachine.com/how_t...adingmusic.htm). Whenever I refer to musical lines, this is what I'm referring to. Thanks. The bass clef staff winds around the shaman, but there are no notes on it. No text.

    The way that first sentence is written, someone might say it was a moving panel.

    And the walking staff is magically delicious.

    Since, in the first panel, you didn't give the artist a body position, or mention the figure was holding anything, or describe him in any wayÖ the drawing for the first panel showed him standing tall and strong with his arms spread and nothing in his hands. Now the artist has to go back and fix it to show an old man leaning on a crooked staff. (Of course the revisions are only required because he was too lazy to read the script for the whole page before he started drawing, but it's best to get it all covered from the start, right?)


    PANEL 3
    Come around to view the shaman head on. He looks wise, and has seen many winters. He's slight of build, but his eyes are canny. He has a farway (faraway) look in his eyes. Don't forget the musical lines. No text.

    We should have known about his slight build in the first panel too, or at least the second. The artist drew him too muscular and has to go rework it again.

    PanEL 4 (Watch your caps. This may be an artifact of stripping your formatting away, but this is happening everywhere - sometimes they're all caps, sometimes they're upper & lower case, sometimes they're all mixed up)
    Extreme close-up of his mouth. His crooked teeth can be seen in a mouth almost covered over with a beard. His mouth is open as if he's about to say something. Small panel. Note to letterer: there will be a bubble here, and it should be decently sized, but there's no text in it.

    Now we have a magically delicious beard.

    And who the heck wants to see an extreme close-up featuring an old guy's crooked teeth? I sure don't. What drama is there in a gaping mouth? You could have put your no-text bubble in panel 3 (or just zoomed in for a close-up in this panel, if you wanted the padding) and accomplished the same thing without subjecting us to the dental exam. I guess we should just be glad it's not smell-o-vision, so we don't have to deal with his halitosis.


    Shaman
    No text


    PAGE 2
    Splash page
    The world burns away to a yellow-white! No text.

    I would say this was a moving pan... uh, page, except that I really can't because I donít know what that description even means. What are you asking for here?

    And this feels like padding to me. You could have gotten everything you needed out of the first two pages all on page 1, with only four panels. Or you could have bumped this image to the next page and made it clearer that your character is waking up from a dream, rather than it just seeming like a scene change.

    Also, this isn't a dramatic moment. It's a WTF moment. By putting it entirely on its own page, between two completely different scenes, you severed any connection to either scene - so Iím just left wondering what the heck that had to do with anything.


    PAGE 3

    PANEL 1
    This entire page is in a wide-screen format. The this (one or the other) panel is totally black.

    This feels like a really odd place to go wide-screen for a whole page. You don't need big expansive panels because there's almost nothing happening.

    PANEL 2
    This is from Brian's POV. He is starting to open his eyes, , (Too many commas) and he sees a clock. The top and bottom of the clock are cut off, and it's just a sliver that can be seen. Just like real eyes, this is near the bottom of the panel, not directly in the middle. No text.

    So you want another black panel, except with a couple slits near the bottom to simulate half-open eyes? Or one slit? Is the slit oval, like an eye? Or just a band with black at the top and bottom, like watching a wide-screen movie on a standard TV? Or is it just a very shallow panel that shows a cut-off clock, with blank space above? Do you want the artist to decide?

    What time of day is it? Shouldn't we know that now, rather than next panel?


    PANEL 3
    Brian's eyes are totally open, and we see the clock in full. The LED reads 2:11 am.

    Is this still a black panel with eyeball openings (was it ever)? Or are we just looking at what Brian is looking at? Or are we now looking at Brian looking at the clock?

    Oh wait, we can't see Brian, or the clock, because it's the wee hours of the morning and we can't see anything but glowing numbers in the dark.

    And, if the time was important, why didn't we know that last panel (because at least part of the numbers would have been visible)?


    PaneL 4
    Pull all the way out to see Brian, turned on his side, looking at the clock. He's twisted up in the single sheet on the bed, and is covered in sweat. He looks like he's been tossing and turning before he woke up.

    BRIAN
    Crud.

    You can't pull out. You have to reverse the viewpoint, because the artist thought you were still using Brian as the viewpoint in the last panel.

    Do you really mean a single sheet? As in, he's twisted up in the fitted sheet that normally covers the mattress and you sleep on top of? Or do you mean that he was just sleeping under a sheet (on top of another) with no blankets.

    What does his room look like?

    I'll assume you have character notes to go with the script, since you're not describing Brian at all.

    And some guy waking up is a good page turn?

    This also seems like an awful lot to go through to show a guy waking up from a dream - so I'm calling you on more padding. Think about it - You gave me hell for using three panels to show a guy getting drunk, and you wasted an entire page to show a guy waking up.


    PAGE 4

    PANEL 1
    Close up of fingers tapping on a bookshelf. These are index fingers, and they are being used as drumsticks as they tap out a beat on a bookshelf. Large books on psychology can be seen in the background of the fingers.

    For the reader to know that these are books on psychology, either the artist or the letterer is going to have to invent book titles. Wouldn't you rather it was you? (And, yes, I know you believe the writer should letter his own comic. But, based on that logic, I shouldn't have to write panel descriptions because I'm the artist)

    Sfx
    RRRRRATTA-TATATAT

    Panel 2
    Pull all the way out to see Brian Thomas standing up in the office of his shrink, tapping on the tall bookcase. He's bent over at the waist, head turned to the side to face us as he listens. His mouth is slightly open in concentration. He's still tapping away. The office itself is rather large and spacious. It's open, allowing people to feel more at ease. The couch- very comfortable looking- can be seen from here, and quite possibly the beginning of a desk to the side, but the shirnk (shrink) himself cannot be seen.

    Are there windows? If so, what time of day is it? Does it not matter?

    SFX
    RRRRRRATTA-TATATAT

    Brian
    (whispering)
    Louder...

    Panel 3
    Sitting behind the large oak desk is Michael, the psychologist. He is holding a pen lengthwise between his index fingers and thumbs. His head is cocked to the side slightly. He's interested in what's going on.

    Oh sure, now you want to get specific and make it an oak desk. And the artist drew the corner of a nice, modern metal and laminate one in the last panel, darn it. This is why I'm always putting the complete room description in the first panel of a given scene - it may get me bawled out by you, but it's there to prevent misunderstandings and magical deliciousness.

    What is the viewpoint of this scene? Did we just zoom out further, so Brian is still in frame, or did we change angles? Do you want the artist to decide? And this guy is in the character notes too, right?


    Michael
    Brian? Feel like talking now?

    I can't really see a highly educated and professional person, like a psychologist, dropping the beginning of his sentences like that (not in a professional setting at least). I do it all the time, but I'm a redneck with a high school diploma. "Do you feel like talking now?" would probably make more sense for someone like Michael, and the precision will also help make his voice distinct from Brian's more casual speech.

    Panel 4
    Back to Brian, who's looking like he just woke up. He should look animated, but exhausted. Try to keep this air over the entire book. No worries. I'll mention it again in various places.

    Is he suddenly animated and exhausted now, after looking well-rested and mellow in the earlier panels? If not, you should have mentioned it sooner.

    BRIAN
    Huh?

    MICHAEL
    (off panel)
    You've been tapping for a few minutes now. You don't pay me to listen to you tap.

    Boring page turn.

    This needs to get somewhere soon. So far we've seen some weird flashback to the dawn of man, then jumped to (possibly) the end of the world (which might all have been a dream, but I'm not sure because the page break made it seem like a scene change), then some guy wakes up, and then the guy zones out at his shrink's office. We're already four pages in, Iím more confused than intrigued, and itís getting slower by the page.

    Thereís also no need to use this much real estate for what youíre showing here. Itís a talking heads session. Thereís nothing that requires big panels, so why are there only four of them? Youíre wasting space.


    PAGE 5

    PANEL 1
    Brian has a sheepish grin on his face. He's facing Michael now.

    BRIAN
    Yeah, I can tap at home.

    BRIAN (CONT'D)
    But sometimes, I feel so close...

    MICHAEL
    Close to what?

    PANEL 2
    Brian sits down on the couch. He's putting his hands on his kneecaps, trying to stop from tapping. He looks frustrated.

    We won't know he's trying to stop from tapping just because he has his hands on his kneecaps. The artist could probably show a lifted finger or two, to suggest some involuntary tapping motion, but you didn't ask for it. So youíve got a guy clutching his kneecaps while he sits down.

    This is also bordering on a moving panel. The artist could show Brian in the act of sitting, but the thing with the hands makes it sound like he's already sitting - putting them on his knees to stop tapping, while not yet sitting, seems strange. What exactly is it you're looking for?

    And what's the viewpoint? It must have changed, because you moved Michael off panel (though I donít know that till I get to the dialogue). What did it change to?


    BRIAN
    I don't know. It's hard to describe.

    MICHAEL
    (off panel)
    Brian Thomas, world renowned singer/songwriter, and leader of the Cover (Coven - I read ahead), is having trouble expressing himself?

    It's not entirely clear, in this bit of dialogue, whether Brian is leader of a band called the Coven, or a coven of witches. Since it's a band, maybe "lead singer"? Or perhaps "world renowned singer/songwriter" would be enough on its own.

    Also, there's already a band called the Coven, and I suspect this guy isnít their lead singer.


    MICHAEL (CONT'D)
    (off panel)
    Lay (Lie) back and tell me about it.

    PANEL 3
    Brian lays back, arm draped over his eyes, blocking out the light.

    BRIAN
    It's the music.

    BRIAN (CONT'D)
    I hear it everywhere I go, with whatever I'm doing.

    BRIAN (CONT'D)
    It's not even my music. It's the rhythm of the world- it's pulse.

    Panel 4
    On Michael, as he looks on at Brian. He looks very interested. Possibly a small frown on his face? Brian can still be seen from this angle, and he hasn't moved.

    This could be tricky. You can't show Michael from behind Brian, because Brian will be blocked by the couch. You can't show Brian from behind Michael, because you'll lose Michael's expression. You're going to be stuck with a high angle, or a side view - neither of which are ideal for getting Michael's expression. It could probably be done, but...

    This should really be two panels anyway - one a medium shot of Michael looking "very interested", and the other a medium shot or close-up of Brian. Your page may be a little more crowded than you planned, but... if you bump panel 1 from this page back to the last page (page 4, which only had four panels), you'll even that out and have a better page turn on page 4 as a bonus.


    MICHAEL
    Explain.

    BRIAN
    Bugs, the wind between buildings and leaves, a car passing at just the right time, the laugh of a child- it's like a symphony.

    BRIAN (CONT'D)
    Crescendos build and crash when people are angry or scared, or both. Screams, gunshots, crying, a crash- it's all connected.

    BRIAN (CONT'D)
    And it's beautiful. And there's something underneath it all.

    Panel 5
    Brian has removed his arm from his eyes, and stares upward. A single tear escapes down the side of his face.

    BRIAN
    At night, it's worse.

    MICHAEL
    (off panel)
    Let's talk about that.

    BRIAN
    ...

    MICHAEL
    (off panel)
    Brian?

    BRIAN
    (smaller)
    I don't want to.

    You didn't specify, but this should be a close-up. I'd even be tempted to split up the panels again and make just that last line fall on a very tight close-up - but it works as it is too.

    And finally a decent page turn. Rather good one actually. Too bad everything up to this point was either confusing or boring.

    _____

    Iím going to stop the play-by-play there, but I went through and edited the whole thing (I figured it would be good exercise for me) so Iíll address the entire script in the overview.

    The dialogue is good. Could use a polish in a few spots, of course, but doesnít need a lot of work.

    Your descriptions are often way too thin. I know you prefer them that way, but if I was your artist, I'd be wishing there was more there to work from Ė especially since thereís sometimes nothing at all. You don't need every little nuance, but when I have to rely on the dialogue notes to tell whoís in the panel, itís not good. You also have a problem with introducing character elements late in the comic that needed to be addressed earlier, sometimes at the very beginning Ė the caveman chief comes to mind.

    The pacing needs work. There are a couple areas where things started to drag, and without anything in the entire 22 pages that even resembles action to provide a counterpoint, I don't think you can afford any drag at all. You've also stretched about (I would guesstimate) 15-16 pages of story out to fill 22 pages of comic. That's kind of a problem. It seems to get worse near the end too, like you realized you were nearing the wrap-up and your page count target was too far away. And, as if that didnít pad it out enough, you waste more space by showing the same thing twice. We see the cavemen sequence at the beginning, and then you walk us through the same exact thing again later Ė if we were several issues in and needed a recap, that might be fine, but we donít need a recap halfway through the first issue. I think you need to take a hard look at how much story you really have, and where youíre making the breaks between issues, because there wasnít nearly enough story here for a full issue.

    I also think you need to look at the structure of the story itself. You're being entirely too cryptic. You didnít leave me wondering what will happen, you left me wondering what already happened. Thereís nothing but questions piled on top of questions, with no answers. You can leave a dozen plot elements hanging, but you need to resolve something (even if you later turn it on its ear). It doesnít have to make sense, but it has to feel like it will make sense Ė and you didnít pull that off. Iím not sure Iím explaining this very wellÖ thereís just an overall feeling that youíve introduced a lot of elements that donít tie together properly, without a clear explanation of what is happening, what the supporting characters want to accomplish, or why (answer any one of those, and Iíd probably come back for the rest). Maybe it just went over my head, but thatís still a sign of a problem if you want the reader to understand what youíre doing.

    However, having said that, there are hints that there might be a good story out there somewhere. Unfortunately all I really know about it couldíve fit in a back cover teaser, but from what little I can see, you probably have something worth developing. You just donít want to make the reader work for it nearly as much as you are. You might want to go back to the outline, and look at how youíre breaking the story up and how youíre presenting it. (Of course, itís also possible that just streamlining things to get a little more of the story into the first issue would help solve the problem too, but thatís not something I can tell just from looking at the first issue.)



    WellÖ that was fun. And I think it was almost as good a learning experience, for me, as it is when the tables are turned the normal way. I hope my efforts were helpful to Steven, as well. (If you want the whole edit, Steven, let me know and Iíll send it off Ė itís done either way, so if you can use itÖ)

    Anybody else want to take a shot at Steven? Or at me? Lets discuss.



  2. AdamH Guest

    My two cents...

    This is pre-historic times, so there is not going to be anything modern around.
    Minor nitpick, but needless to say, if it's pre-historic times, it goes without saying there isn't going to be anything modern around. Unless you specifically point out modern things i.e. Delorean in the background, etc.

    Even for a silhouette, if you want him shown clearly enough to be recognizable as a person, then the artist needs to know what he looks like, what he's wearing, and what he's doing
    General body shape? Yes. Do we need to know what he's wearing right now? I'm going to go with no. The script says to me, "I need a silhouette of a dude away from the fire." So give him a vague body shape and call it good.

    The way that first sentence is written, someone might say it was a moving panel.
    If you're referring to the "Moving past the tribe around the fire, we are on the hill". I would argue that's just giving reference in the script, reference to where this panel is "looking" in relation to where the previous panel was "looking"

    And the walking staff is magically delicious.
    I don't see it that way, depending on the angle we're viewing the old man from and the distance, we could not see the walking stick if it was right beside him or appeared right behind him from our viewing angle.

    Page 1 ending: I was not interested enough to turn the page. We have a leader caveman around a bunch of other cavemen, he's looking at an old dude. FIN

    For the reader to know that these are books on psychology, either the artist or the letterer is going to have to invent book titles. Wouldn't you rather it was you?
    Another meh point for me, if I could come up with some names, I would, if not I would include note to the letterer to come up with some generic psychology book names.

    Page 5, Panel 4: 54 words in one panel of a 5 panel page that has dialogue in the rest of the panels. Too much.

    Overall: I was bored. I wanted something to get going in the first 5 pages. Maybe a gnarly caveman fight, or Brian flipping out and punching his therapist, maybe he discovers he has a telekinesis and makes his therapist's brain explode ala Scanners. Something.

    On the other the hand, it has promise, its a beginning. The link (if there is one) from caveman to Brian is mildly interesting, maybe if him and the leader caveman looked similar? Also, the dialogue wasn't too bad overall. Panel description needed a little bit more in places, Calvin pointed most of those out.
    Last edited by AdamH; Friday, September 04, 2009 at 09:25 PM.



  3. Dungbeetle Guest

    I'm not sure if the lay/lie distinction matters in dialogue, but I'd think frontman would make more sense than "leader" when you're talking about a band. A frontMAN in a Coven? Holy Gender Disphoria, Batman!

    Are the last two lines of dialogue floating or what? Because there's a couple of back-and-forths there... I thought that was a no-no. Wouldn't it be easier to have a narrow slither of a 6th panel, just black, with that last exchange of "Brian?" and "I don't want to" in floating balloons?

    I really like the posture descriptions here, but as a student of sorts, I'm a bit confused about moving panels still, I mean...

    "PANEL 3
    Brian lays back, arm draped over his eyes, blocking out the light."

    to me, implies an action, as if he's just doing it. I can read between the lines and I know that if I'm going to draw that, then he's already laid back and he's in a stationary position - we're looking at that one snapshot, and in my head it's a good snapshot. Still, I've seen plently of similar panels taken apart here for being "moving".

    As for sparseness... if a script needs to be sparse then why even bother writing full script? If the artist is expected to fill in x amount of gaps there's got to be a point where it's just easier for both parties if the script is in Marvel format?



  4. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    3,678
    Post Thanks / Like

    Quote Originally Posted by Dungbeetle View Post
    I'm not sure if the lay/lie distinction matters in dialogue,
    It does when the speaker is a Doctor of Psychology.
    "Living Robert Venditti's Plan B!"

    CAT. 5



  5. CalvinCamp Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamH View Post
    General body shape? Yes. Do we need to know what he's wearing right now? I'm going to go with no. The script says to me, "I need a silhouette of a dude away from the fire." So give him a vague body shape and call it good.
    I was being a bit picky as it wasn't entirely clear that anyone but the leader was wearing clothing at all. So the question would be, is this a vague figure that looks clothed? A vague figure that looks naked? A vague figure with a fur cloak? Unless you really just want a blob on a hillside, the artist needs something to work with.

    I feel a character should be fully described when you first introduce him. As the artist, I shouldn't have to pick through the script to collect all the details of a character (or a scene, for that matter) to make sure I'm not accidently contradicting a later description when I'm working on the current panel. Put it in up front, in one place, and there won't be problems. Dole details out piece by piece, and I believe you're asking for trouble (or at least an annoyed artist).

    If you're referring to the "Moving past the tribe around the fire, we are on the hill". I would argue that's just giving reference in the script, reference to where this panel is "looking" in relation to where the previous panel was "looking"
    Personally, I agree with you. That's why I said "someone might call it a moving panel". Steven is much more strict in interpreting moving panels than I am, so if I thought it was even bordering on a moving panel, I called it out - I figure that's how he'd want it done.

    I don't see it that way, depending on the angle we're viewing the old man from and the distance, we could not see the walking stick if it was right beside him or appeared right behind him from our viewing angle.
    "depending" "could" "if"

    Those words point out the problem. The description didn't say "he has a walking stick, but position him so we can't see it." It didn't call for a position at all, so there's nothing to prevent the artist from drawing the old man in a position that wouldn't hide the walking stick. Yes, if the artist has read the script (as he should) he'll know about it, but I still say the artist shouldn't have to go picking through the script to find every detail that may be applicable to an earlier panel. When the old guy first appears, the old guy should be described (at least any elements that aren't intentionally concealed).

    Another meh point for me, if I could come up with some names, I would, if not I would include note to the letterer to come up with some generic psychology book names.
    It's true that it doesn't really matter who does it, but someone needs to. And right now, it hasn't been clearly assigned to anyone. (I also question whether it should be the letterer's job to write book titles for a writer who doesn't feel like bothering, considering how poorly letterers are generally paid for what they do already)



  6. CalvinCamp Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dungbeetle View Post
    A frontMAN in a Coven? Holy Gender Disphoria, Batman!
    [raises an eyebrow]
    There are male witches, you know.

    Are the last two lines of dialogue floating or what? Because there's a couple of back-and-forths there... I thought that was a no-no. Wouldn't it be easier to have a narrow slither of a 6th panel, just black, with that last exchange of "Brian?" and "I don't want to" in floating balloons?
    I'd be inclined to move the first panel back to the previous page and add a new panel at the end of this one. I think it would improve both pages.

    I really like the posture descriptions here, but as a student of sorts, I'm a bit confused about moving panels still, I mean...
    Welcome to my world.

    "PANEL 3
    Brian lays back, arm draped over his eyes, blocking out the light."

    to me, implies an action, as if he's just doing it. I can read between the lines and I know that if I'm going to draw that, then he's already laid back and he's in a stationary position - we're looking at that one snapshot, and in my head it's a good snapshot. Still, I've seen plently of similar panels taken apart here for being "moving".
    You can show an action in a description, as long as it's an action that can be drawn in a "frozen moment". I've adopted the stance that if no character is performing an action that can't be "frozen" and still make sense (in other words, the description can be boiled down to that "snapshot" you're talking about) and there is no notation specifying a range or speed of motion (quickly, slowly, walking around something, "moving past the tribe", etc)... then it's not a moving panel (even if someone tries to tell me it is ). That's about the best I can manage without pulling my hair out.

    I didn't think the description you quoted even bordered on a moving panel myself. I don't think Steven would call it one either, though I could be wrong.

    As for sparseness... if a script needs to be sparse then why even bother writing full script? If the artist is expected to fill in x amount of gaps there's got to be a point where it's just easier for both parties if the script is in Marvel format?
    A script doesn't need to be sparse. Sparse is bad. A script needs to be concise. It needs to get all the important data across with a minimum of extraneous garbage, but it still needs to get the important data across. Just because Steven has given me hell for having too much description in some of my scripts, doesn't mean there's no such thing as too little.



  7. StevenForbes Guest

    I'm here. Kinda. Sorta. I have work, and I'm moving in the morning. So I'm here, but haven't really read through this.

    Thanks for looking through this and putting it up, Calvin. I appreciate it.

    I'l read through the comments when I can. In the meantime, let the conversation continue!



  8. Dungbeetle Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by SebastianPiccione View Post
    It does when the speaker is a Doctor of Psychology.
    Depends if you want to portray him as a decent Doctor or not.

    Madelf - I know that. I'm just not sure if Coven is the best name because it DOES have matriarchal connotations no matter how many of your witches have penises. Male-fronted bands with matriarchal names are patronizing at least.



  9. CalvinCamp Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dungbeetle View Post
    Depends if you want to portray him as a decent Doctor or not.
    I think what it comes down to is that the correct term, in that case, is "lie". Steven can certainly certainly continue to use the incorrect term if it was an intentional choice.

    Madelf - I know that. I'm just not sure if Coven is the best name because it DOES have matriarchal connotations no matter how many of your witches have penises. Male-fronted bands with matriarchal names are patronizing at least.
    It's a consideration I guess. Just not one that would have occurred to me.

    The existence of a real band named Coven (which was fronted by a female singer, for whatever that's worth) still seems a more compelling reason to avoid the name to me.
    Last edited by CalvinCamp; Saturday, September 05, 2009 at 09:01 PM.



  10. CalvinCamp Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenForbes View Post
    Thanks for looking through this and putting it up, Calvin. I appreciate it.
    You're welcome. And thank you, also. I enjoyed going through it, and found it to be quite an interesting undertaking.



Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Archive Forums (For Archive Purposes only): General Comics Discussion, Original Works, It's Clobberin' Time, Respect Threads, P'wned, General Chat, Beat Down, The Champagne Room (Mature), Marvel News UP TO April 2011 (See the latest news here), DC News UP TO April 2011 (See the latest news here), DC News UP TO April 2011 (See the latest news here), Archie News UP TO April 2011 (See the latest news here), Comic Book Vitamins (See the latest columns here), Comics Are For People (See the latest columns here), Comics & Cinema (See the latest columns here), Comics Pro Prep (See the latest columns here), Bolts & Nuts (See the latest columns here), Seb-Standard (See the latest columns here), Webcomics You Should Be Reading (See the latest columns here), Development Hell (See the latest columns here), The Proving Grounds (See the latest columns here), Pixels Per Inch (See the latest columns here), Bargain Bin Gold (See the latest columns here), Dead Tuesday (See the latest columns here), Have You Considered... (See the latest columns here), Comic Book Vitamins (See the latest columns here)
Project Fanboy is now Fanboy Buzz.
Fanboy Buzz is home to Comic Book News, Comic Book Reviews, Comic Book Columns, Comic Book Forums and Comic Book Podcast
Check out some of our past podcast hosts doing podcasts at GonnaGeek.com. Sci-Fi, Tech, Gaming, Comics and More!