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Thread: A discussion about a sense of personal empowerment

  1. LeeNordling Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by harryd View Post
    These may be a bit more situational about why things could get changed, but maybe some valid reasons.

    Laziness. (This panel is too complicated, but I think I can get away with just doing...)

    Too Busy/Deadlines. (Crap! This is due tomorrow, and I need to bust out another 5 pages!)

    Irrational Reasons. (My hamster told me to do it this way! ... ok that was more for humor. But, also could include things like, I've decided I dislike the person I'm working with so I'm going to do it badly, rather than quit.)

    Well, that's all that I can come up with that weren't covered by the original listing. Everything else that comes to mind is just a variations on something listed.
    Excellent.

    Gold star here, too.

    And a bonus point for "crazy," which I wondered whether or not it would get mentioned.

    --Lee



  2. LeeNordling Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Bret View Post
    How about these three?

    *I will impress others. (editors, fans, girlfriends.)
    *The original artwork will sell better.
    *Exhaustion. (I'll have to take a shortcut.)

    -----Bret
    Another gold star!

    And one I didn't think of, which I am CERTAIN has been thought of: the artwork will sell better.

    Good work folks.

    More?

    Let's find out tomorrow.

    --Lee



  3. Cary Guest

    "This is how I was taught/I didn't realize it was a big deal."



  4. LeeNordling Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    "This is how I was taught/I didn't realize it was a big deal."
    GOOD one, Cary. Yes, some artists were trained or told THIS is what they're supposed to do and they don't know any...different. (I was going to write "better," then realized there was judgment involved in that word usage.)

    Going back to a previous thought, "The original art will sell better" is one I've heard, primarily expressed as something that is important to artists for pretty obvious reasons.

    Why MIGHT art sell better if the artist did whatever he/she wanted?

    Well, PRESUMABLY because "it's a more dynamic page."

    And that's another to add, an often-used explanation for why an artist deviates from the script.

    Let's put a punctuation mark on this one.

    The artist believes that more dynamic pages make better comics.

    Doesn't make it true...but it's DEFINITELY a school of thought in comics.

    Any more?

    --Lee



  5. Bret Guest

    This one came to me this morning:

    Imitation. (That's how Jim Lee would do it.)

    ----Bret



  6. LeeNordling Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Bret View Post
    This one came to me this morning:

    Imitation. (That's how Jim Lee would do it.)

    ----Bret
    Excellent.

    --Lee



  7. Join Date
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    "I was going for a certain style..."
    "Living Robert Venditti's Plan B!"

    CAT. 5



  8. LeeNordling Guest

    So let's see what we've got.

    Here are suggested reason/rationale for why artists might feel empowered to do whatever they want to in translating the script to the drawn panel/panel/page:

    • It's my job.
    • I need to make it mine.
    • I didn't get paid, so I should be able to do what I want to.
    • I didn't get paid enough to do what somebody else tells me to do.
    • You hired me for what I do, and this is what I do.
    • I get a vote.
    • I thought I could do it, because I'm the artist and this is the art.
    • Because I can.
    • I thought it was better this way.
    • I LIKE it better this way.
    • My version will sell better (is more commercial).
    • My name is on the book as the artist, and I need to make sure the work lives up to my reputation/my standard of quality.
    • To improve the flow/story-telling.
    • Laziness.
    • Too Busy/Deadlines. (Crap! This is due tomorrow, and I need to bust out another 5 pages!)
    • Crazy.
    • I will impress others. (editors, fans, girlfriends.)
    • The original artwork will sell better.
    • Exhaustion. (I'll have to take a shortcut.)
    • This is how I was taught/I didn't realize it was a big deal.
    • It's more dynamic.
    • Imitation. (That's how Jim Lee would do it.)
    • I was going for a certain style.

    That's a pretty decent list, folks.

    I want you to examine EACH of these reasons and notice one constant: there is NO room in them for a collaboration.

    If you go back to the previous discussion on this topic, you'll note that I wrote the following line: "The point of this exercise is to understand two things: not everybody thinks or works in the same manner, nor should they; and that being flexible enough to understand somebody else's process will help you learn to adapt to others, which is a particularly important aspect for a largely collaborative medium."

    Now, I think most of the people here are primarily writers (I hope I'm wrong, and please feel free to correct me if I am), which is unfortunate, especially since they'd like this NEXT part a lot.

    Let's turn the spotlight around...

    What do you believe are potential reasons/rationale for why writers might feel empowered to write as much or as little as possible into a panel/panel/page?

    NOTE: I AM DISCUSSING THE EXTREMES WITHOUT DEFINING THEM. DON'T LET THE LACK OF DEFINITION DISTRACT YOU; PRESUME THE WRITE KNOWS WHAT HE/SHE IS DOING: OVER- OR UNDER-WRITING.

    It is time for some flurries of self-awareness, observation, and confession.

    Please keep your answers just as brief and clear.

    Let's get started.

    --Lee



  9. Join Date
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    Neither condoning nor condemning, here we go...off the top of my head:

    REASONS TO OVERWRITE:

    "These details are Important"

    "I want this to look a certain way."

    "I created these characters, I want it to look my way"

    "This is how I envisioned it"

    REASONS TO UNDERWRITE

    "The details are unimportant"

    "I want to let my artist 'go nuts' with it"

    "I'm a writer, not an artist"

    "I trust/know my writer and have worked with him/her before"
    "Living Robert Venditti's Plan B!"

    CAT. 5



  10. Bret Guest

    Sebastian, great points.
    BTW, many of the same artist reasons could apply here, too.

    I'll add a few.

    OVERWRITE:
    I've been doing this longer than you.
    My detailed descriptions will leave little room for error.
    I don't know who the artist is, so this will help.
    Imitation. This is how my favorite writer's scripts look.

    UNDERWRITE:
    My page-rate's the same even when I put less time into it.
    I don't care about these characters.



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