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Thread: Comics Cultures, Part 4

  1. LeeNordling Guest

    Hey, Rain.

    Try stepping back to the core reasons.

    For example, instead of "Is my project commercial," try "Is there a reason a publisher should pay me more than they traditionally pay?" This opens up the possibility for all three bonus benefits, not just the one.

    More later. Gotta run.

    --Lee

    PS. More: We've made a good start. What are the fewest number of questions we can ask that cover the range of consideration?

    Let's start with:

    Is the ownership situation acceptable?

    What do I hope to gain by working on this project?

    Does the payment for producing this project fulfill my needs?

    ***

    Let's keep these basic...then expand, where necessary, inside these questions.

    I don't think we're going to be able to go inside the questions more than one or two levels, but let's get these first level questions asked first...within the context of our seven scenarios.

    Oh, I'm not sure my payment question works yet...I'm just using this as a placeholder till we get something that does.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by LeeNordling; Tuesday, March 02, 2010 at 07:24 PM.



  2. danialworks Guest

    How about--

    "Are my finacial risks and rewards for this project both acceptable?"



  3. Rain Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by danialworks View Post
    Hey Rain... what do you think about "Why do I need the money" being changed to something like "How important is the money project by project?"
    I think that question, or a slight variation of, is certainly applicable.

    Maybe, "How important is the money for this project, considering the time I'll be expending on it?"

    The reason I originally left it at "Why do I need the money?" is the answer will go a long way towards determining if the financial aspect of a deal is acceptable for the given creator -- especially if their answer is, "I need it for a roof over my head."

    That creator is probably gonna need more money than one who's answer is, "I need (want) it to purchase those new video games."

    Or perhaps I'm over-thinking all this. Either way, the cognitive wheels are churning, which is always a good thing.

    Rain



  4. LeeNordling Guest

    Okay, day two.

    Let's take this ONE line at a time and see where that gets us.

    I'm reversing my previous order. I thought "goal" should come before all the rest, because every answer to a question should be measured against whether it supports the goal, right?

    If anybody thinks there's a better starting place, feel free to chime in.

    So...

    1. What do I hope to gain by working on this project?

    This allows a creator to get specific about profitability, fun, or advancing some number of rungs on his/her career ladder.

    Any objections to this as the first question?

    2. What's the commercial viability of my project in the marketplace?

    I'm propelling this one to near the top, because it's the "thing" in question, and the answer to its potential viability may determine answers to following questions of ownership and payment.

    3. Is the ownership situation acceptable?

    This one allows for somebody to take a job or not when it's work for hire.

    Any objections to this as the third question?

    4. How long will it take to produce my part of this project?

    This gets bumped up from previous discussions. It strikes me that we need to know how much time and effort still remains to be done on it. If it's finished, for example, payment to pay the rent might not be an issue.

    Do you see how we're working from the bigger questions that cover all the bases?

    Any objection to this as the fourth question?

    5. Why do I need to be paid?

    Upon reflection, this variation on Rain's is probably the best, because it allows for numerous answers, ranging from "I don't" to "I need to pay the monthly rent."

    Danial's "risks and rewards" question had appealing aspects, but I don't think most people start well with complicated assessments, at least not until the foundation's been laid. (Look at how few of us are actually working on these "simple" questions.) I think some variation on this question might be good for a conclusion that's based on all the answers to these simpler questions.

    6. ?

    What's next, folks?

    We have many more questions that can be developed, and many that can be culled from our first offerings.

    Moving forward...I'd like to see you repeat all the questions in sequence. If you suggest moving something, please follow my lead and explain why a question should precede or follow another.

    Let's keep it rolling.

    Thanks.

    --Lee
    Last edited by LeeNordling; Wednesday, March 03, 2010 at 07:53 PM.



  5. danialworks Guest

    Personally, Rain, I don't think you're overthinking. Even if, as a creator, a person finds themselves taking twenty-five bucks a page and no royalties, this isn't a part time job. Even if you're a brilliant biochemist, a lawyer making 2 million a year-- whatever-- writing books, or comics, or articles is a second full time job. Really, its the first full-time job because it never leaves your head completely. For me, "I want those video games" isn't a reason to have the job of writer or artist. It's not a paper route, it's an adult carreer. Actually, I'm one of those it's not a job it's a calling types, but this is Lee's seminar!

    So I think in some ways we're always going after that roof over our heads.

    Really, if one kid's lifelong passion is to be a professional wrestler, and one kid's lifelong passion is write or draw comics, it's easier to become a professional wrestler.

    And there's that word "realistic" poking it's ugly head into things again.



  6. danialworks Guest

    I'm not doing the best at wording the questions, so I'm going to just to toss the idea of "Am I comfortable with the artist or writer I'm" into the mix, and see who rewrites it into question #8.

    Also, can I learn from this editor/doing this project?



  7. danialworks Guest

    Well, something went wrong there. That would be artist or writer I'm working with--



  8. LeeNordling Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by danialworks View Post
    Personally, Rain, I don't think you're overthinking. Even if, as a creator, a person finds themselves taking twenty-five bucks a page and no royalties, this isn't a part time job. Even if you're a brilliant biochemist, a lawyer making 2 million a year-- whatever-- writing books, or comics, or articles is a second full time job. Really, its the first full-time job because it never leaves your head completely. For me, "I want those video games" isn't a reason to have the job of writer or artist. It's not a paper route, it's an adult carreer. Actually, I'm one of those it's not a job it's a calling types, but this is Lee's seminar!

    So I think in some ways we're always going after that roof over our heads.

    Really, if one kid's lifelong passion is to be a professional wrestler, and one kid's lifelong passion is write or draw comics, it's easier to become a professional wrestler.

    And there's that word "realistic" poking it's ugly head into things again.
    I misread a post by Danial, so what follows tracks more closely to what he wrote. For anybody that read the earlier misinterpretation (nope, there were no fireworks; it's just that my opening response didn't make any sense), sorry.

    Here's the revised version of my post:

    Actually, Danial, I agree that Rain's not over-thinking it. And there are a lot of reasons, though many might be a "roof over our heads" situation.

    In my case, some are and some aren't.

    I wrote a book a year ago; it's done. The artist did his samples. It's at a pretty interesting publisher, and I think the budget will be lowish. The payment will contribute to the other things that help pay my bills, but I don't need to work on it, except as an editor, then designer...so I've got other things to do to keep the "roof over my head" while it gets drawn.

    And I think, in many ways, it's a game-changer project for sequential art in trade book publishing, more accessible than most of what's being produced, format-wise. Sure, I could be wrong, but I think that, as well as other projects we're putting together that are similarly formatted, these will be big.

    One editor (who works for a trade book publisher that produces "younger" stuff; I was showing it to him for format, not as a submission) said, "This is EXACTLY the kind of book I would buy for myself if I saw it in a store."

    A publisher may not (probably WILL not) be sure of this potential for success, so he's going to pay less. And I'll take less, because I believe there'll be more in royalties.

    Now, this is my assessment of one book that we've got. It doesn't follow the sequence of questions we're working on, but it could fit into it.

    And "needing to pay the rent" wouldn't be the answer to my payment question. My answer would be "help to pay some of, but not all of, the bills."

    This is stuff I do daily without thinking about it, mostly because I'm always juggling the business, personal, professional, and it's interesting to build these series of questions that will help creators come up with their own, balanced, thought-through conclusions.

    Anyway, I think we're making progress.

    --Lee

    PS. I like the use of the term "seminar." Glad that's coming across.
    Last edited by LeeNordling; Wednesday, March 03, 2010 at 07:54 PM.



  9. LeeNordling Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by danialworks View Post
    I'm not doing the best at wording the questions, so I'm going to just to toss the idea of "Am I comfortable with the artist or writer I'm" into the mix, and see who rewrites it into question #8.

    Also, can I learn from this editor/doing this project?
    While I think it's good to come up with relevant questions, this presumes the person doesn't do both, which excludes a bunch of people.

    Also, since this is for projects that have been offered deals, the assumption NEEDS to be that creators are in place.

    Let's get back to my last request:

    List all the questions 1 to, in this case, 6, or 6 and 7, or 6 and 7 and 8, etc.

    There are a million great questions, but only so many that will help everybody come to the conclusions that are right for them.

    So, we've got:

    1. What do I hope to gain by working on this project?

    2. What's the commercial viability of my project in the marketplace?

    3. Is the ownership situation acceptable?

    4. How long will it take to produce my part of this project?

    5. Why do I need to be paid?

    What's next?

    --Lee
    Last edited by LeeNordling; Wednesday, March 03, 2010 at 04:41 PM.



  10. danialworks Guest

    Re: Lee's adjustment

    Also, I have a habit of looking forward in the lessons, as well as treating everything as a lifestyle/choice, while Lee just wants us all focused on ONE PROJECT.

    Rain, who I don't know, and I have have taken a few steps toward the idea of collaboration-- or as Lee puts it, consensus.

    There are a few people here who are published-- where are your two cents, your experience?

    And those of you who are total beginners-- you've just seen the Lee is giving a lot of thought to teaching this online seminar. C'mon up to the blackboard with me and Rain-- learn by doing.

    Seriously... if comics publishers catch on to this, they are going to remember who was willing to do some WORK.

    Anyway, doing laundry... I"ll get back to the list as soon as I can.

    But I'm not gonna stand up at the blackboard alone.



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