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Thread: Silence Is Golden: a workshop, Part 2

  1. Rain Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeNordling View Post

    IMAGE: The batter at the plate is laying into a baseball pitched his way.

    In film, this is obviously a swing and a hit.

    In comics, as described, the ball and the bat are intersecting at this exact moment of contact. That's clear to me.

    What, though, I suspect (and only suspect) that the ball has already BEEN hit, and has flown off the bat, with contact rays and speed lines indicating its flight.
    Well, that's another lesson learned for me.

    While I actually intended the ball to be frozen on the end of the bat, an artist might suspect -- as you did -- that I wanted something different.

    Thus, I should have been clearer to ensure what I inteded is what is drawn; The ball is at the end of the bat, at the point of contact. SFX: Crraaack!

    Rain



  2. LeeNordling Guest

    Danial's grade:

    FAIL...but nice try, and I suspect one slip-up wasn't intentional...but it was a slip-up.

    Panel 1.

    The trees have thinned out around John-- we can only see him from the waist up-- his eyes are wide as he's spotted the UFO.

    Panel 2.

    The flying saucer hovers high above sparse trees, and Tom, who we only see from the waste up, has an incredulous look on his face.

    ***

    The UFO is in both these panels.

    Danial, "But I didn't intend for the UFO to be in panel one, so it's okay, right?"

    Lee: "If you didn't intend it to be in panel one, then why is it described?"

    Danial: "So the reader would know what John was looking at."

    Lee: "How would the reader know John was looking at the UFO if it's not in the panel?"

    Danial: "Um...because it's the only thing that's 'up'?"

    Lee: "But the squirrel was featured in the previous panel. If you wanted to the reader to connect the dots to John looking at the UFO, then the UFO should probably have been in the previous panel."

    Welcome to sequential art, folks, where every image has a purpose.

    Danial, this was a challenging attempt, and I ignored that different parts of the blacktop running path were in sequence, just as I ignored Roberts's use of different parts of the forest, and Rain's use of different parts of the ball field, mostly because I thought you were each tackling the spirit of the assignment by juxtaposing interesting sets of images.

    I recommend trying again, but simpler, not because you have to, but because it's better to find success then build on it.

    Go for the hit, not the home run.... Oh, wait, that's Rain's example.

    Thanks, guys.

    I thought you were sitting home on this assignment, and I'm thrilled to see your efforts.

    --Lee



  3. danialworks Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeNordling View Post
    Danial's grade:

    FAIL...but nice try, and I suspect one slip-up wasn't intentional...but it was a slip-up.

    Panel 1.

    The trees have thinned out around John-- we can only see him from the waist up-- his eyes are wide as he's spotted the UFO.

    Panel 2.

    The flying saucer hovers high above sparse trees, and Tom, who we only see from the waste up, has an incredulous look on his face.

    ***

    The UFO is in both these panels.

    Danial, "But I didn't intend for the UFO to be in panel one, so it's okay, right?"

    Lee: "If you didn't intend it to be in panel one, then why is it described?"

    Danial: "So the reader would know what John was looking at."

    Lee: "How would the reader know John was looking at the UFO if it's not in the panel?"

    Danial: "Um...because it's the only thing that's 'up'?"

    Lee: "But the squirrel was featured in the previous panel. If you wanted to the reader to connect the dots to John looking at the UFO, then the UFO should probably have been in the previous panel."

    Welcome to sequential art, folks, where every image has a purpose.

    Danial, this was a challenging attempt, and I ignored that different parts of the blacktop running path were in sequence, just as I ignored Roberts's use of different parts of the forest, and Rain's use of different parts of the ball field, mostly because I thought you were each tackling the spirit of the assignment by juxtaposing interesting sets of images.

    I recommend trying again, but simpler, not because you have to, but because it's better to find success then build on it.

    Go for the hit, not the home run.... Oh, wait, that's Rain's example.

    Thanks, guys.

    I thought you were sitting home on this assignment, and I'm thrilled to see your efforts.

    --Lee
    Actually, we could just call a mistake a mistake. My sense of narrative got uppity, and wanted John and Tom to see the UFO, well, sequentially. Leaving the flying saucer in two sequential panels, err, too. And I missed it. Which is funny, he smiles, because I very carefully placed the UFO in the panels left to right-wise. The squirrel will just have to come between them.

    I've always been more about learning than grades, anyway.
    Last edited by danialworks; Wednesday, April 07, 2010 at 09:26 PM.



  4. LeeNordling Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by danialworks View Post
    Actually, we could just call a mistake a mistake. My sense of narrative got uppity, and wanted John and Tom to see the UFO, well, sequentially. Leaving the flying saucer in two sequential panels, err, too. And I missed it. Which is funny, he smiles, because I very carefully placed the UFO in the panels left to right-wise. The squirrel will just have to come between them.

    I've always been more about learning that grades, anyway.
    Truly the wise path toward...er, wisdom.

    --Lee



  5. drgerb Guest

    A second attempt... I had this idea on my walk home from the grocery store this morning and felt I *had* to type it up.

    Page 1. (7 panels; Top 1/3 is one wide panel, bottom 2/3 is 6 panels conforming to a 9 panel grid)

    Panel 1. A shot of a winter scene outside an apartment building. Children are playing in the yard, a beautiful snow covered tree is the center piece of the panel, and to the right is the slushy driveway heading up to the apartment's parking lot.

    Panel 2. A close up of a bottle of Jack Danielle's whiskey as it sits on the shelf of a grocery store.

    Panel 3. Over the shoulder shot of Jenny in her apartment as she gazes outside at the winter scene in panel 1.

    Panel 4. A close up of John's hand holding the bottle of whiskey as he heads for the checkout.

    Panel 5. A shot from the outside of the apartment window focusing on Jenny. A tear runs down her cheek and she has a depressed / sad look on her face.

    Panel 6. Over the shoulder shot of John sitting in his pickup truck in the grocery store's parking lot. His right hand is holding the opened whiskey bottle which is now 4/5 full.

    Panel 7. A close up shot of a handgun sitting in the passenger's seat of the truck.


    Page 2. (7 panels, top 1/3 is 2 panels, middle 1/3 is 3 panels, bottom 1/3 is 2 panels)

    Panel 1. Jenny is now seated in her recliner with tears streaming from both eyes.

    Panel 2. John's truck pulling into the apartment building's driveway.

    Panel 3. Jenny in her recliner with her head in her hands.

    Panel 4. John is walking up some stairs at the apartment building.

    Panel 5. Jenny in her recliner with her hands pulled away from her face, looking up.

    SFX: Knock, knock, knock.

    Panel 6. A frontal shot of John from the perspective of the door (so we don't see the door). In his left hand is the now 3/4 full bottle of whiskey, in his right is the handgun. He has a blank emotionless stare in his eyes.

    Panel 7. A shot of Jenny's shocked facial expression a moment after she opened the apartment's door.


    I wanted to hint at the scene, and suggest Jenny and John may be lovers who just had an argument. Jenny was coping with it inside while John went out drinking and took some drastic measures. That's what the reader can assume. The truth is, they may be two completely unrelated events. John rode up to the apartment building, but he may be going to another apartment. Jenny may be opening the door for her neighbor looking to borrow some sugar. Quick movie shout out: The Silence of the Lambs was insane with cuts / scene changes that make you assume you know what's happening, then at the last second it totally switches it up on you. That kind of motivated this bit, I guess.

    If we were to continue the scene, maybe Jenny opens the door to her sister she hasn't seen in years, and that initial shock / surprise leads to amazement. Then John is knocking on a downstairs apartment ready to rob the person. Maybe Jenny and John aren't even related; Just two random characters.

    At first I went in writing it, stuck to a 9 panel grid and ended up with like 17 panels in 2 pages. I went on a few tangents and had a few similar panels, and decided to try killing some of them and rewriting it. Then I came up with this.

    I wanted to start the scene on the beauty of winter, innocent children playing, a woman gazing at them before we can see the woman is actually crying. I wanted to introduce the bottle of alcohol, then slowly take this scene on a downward path, ending page one with a shot of a handgun and ending page two with a very strong hint for the reader to put all the pieces together. However whether it fails or succeeds is again beyond me.

    I tried to get a little away from the alternating two things bit... I spread out the time and the space of the scenes, and I didn't 100% alternate back and forth with each panel. I kind of mixed it up some, but I think it still confines to a pretty basic feel. I dunno what else. I just had this idea today and thought it might work for a second attempt at this assignment, one less directly influenced by a particular scene in a movie.


    EDIT: After reading it again I guess a fail could be panels 6 and 7 of page 1. Gah. Both include John's truck; Though panel 2 just shows the passenger's seat, which could be the passenger's seat to any truck. However when John is the one holding the handgun, it becomes obvious that was his truck. In panel 6 we see the dashboard of the truck. So while they are different parts of a truck (which at the time, may be different trucks), in the end we realize they are parts to the same truck. I hope this goes along with the different shots of the same forest / Rain's different parts of the stadium... But I can't totally tell, as a truck is smaller than a forest or a stadium. Bleh. That's the only potential messup I am aware of right now though.


    GAH, SECOND EDIT: I also tried to refrain from using camera angles in every single shot, as I normally do. I only used them a few times, times when I thought they were all but required. Otherwise I tried to leave the camera angles out of it so the artist can do his job. I still find it hard to get away from beginning panel descriptions with 'Wide out shot of,' 'Medium shot of,' or 'Close up.' I'm working on it. I hope I can rid myself of the crutch of camera angles atleast for a while. Then when the time comes, learn to use them only when they're necessary. I think I did a decent job here at trying NOT to focus on them the entire time. Woo. Wish me luck.
    Last edited by drgerb; Thursday, April 08, 2010 at 04:26 PM.



  6. LeeNordling Guest

    Roberts's grade:

    FAIL.

    Sorry, Roberts.

    I've given some flexibility to the repeat of different areas of locations, but specifically excluded locations in locations.

    Here are the panels of concern:

    Panel 6. Over the shoulder shot of John sitting in his pickup truck in the grocery store's parking lot. His right hand is holding the opened whiskey bottle which is now 4/5 full.

    Panel 7. A close up shot of a handgun sitting in the passenger's seat of the truck.

    ***

    Both inside the truck is just too much.

    This is a potentially simple exercise with few "rules."

    That you caught this and didn't edit it is sort of amazing to me, and something (again) for you to consider the next time your self-editor speaks to you.

    I caution you again to tackle something simple JUST so you can become comfortable within the confines of an assignment...ANY assignment.

    This isn't about being the most creative contributor, or waiting for inspiration to strike; it's about tackling a relatively simple exercise and noting the results.

    For others reading this, I ask that you simply concentrate on learning what this exercise has to offer.

    Thanks.

    --Lee
    Last edited by LeeNordling; Thursday, April 08, 2010 at 04:37 PM.



  7. drgerb Guest

    Quick question: If I were to separate panels 6 and 7 with another panel of Jenny, would that be a pass? I guess if it would be considered a pass, I don't think it'd really TEACH me that much.

    Because it seems like that'd then be too much of just Jenny mourning / crying. 4 panels of a girl crying are the same as one panel of a girl crying, imo. At least without dialogue they are. So yeah...

    With this idea, I had a real hard time figuring out which panels to use and which to throw away, while also keeping in mind the whole don't have the same character or thing in two successive panels... Being able to follow a narrative while keeping to those rules is TOUGH. And if you have to add in another additional panel to split two images up, that's basically a panel that doesn't further the story, but just lets you meet the rules... Which totally kills the whole process. So yeah.

    Thanks again for this week's article. It *REALLY* has me thinking about things I never even realized I should be thinking about. Gah. I'll go ahead and see if I can come up with a third and (hopefuly) final attempt to clear all the hurdles, have no questions, etc.

    Blah. Thanks again, Lee. I'm off to learn some more. Muahah.



  8. LeeNordling Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by drgerb View Post
    Quick question: If I were to separate panels 6 and 7 with another panel of Jenny, would that be a pass? I guess if it would be considered a pass, I don't think it'd really TEACH me that much.

    Because it seems like that'd then be too much of just Jenny mourning / crying. 4 panels of a girl crying are the same as one panel of a girl crying, imo. At least without dialogue they are. So yeah...

    With this idea, I had a real hard time figuring out which panels to use and which to throw away, while also keeping in mind the whole don't have the same character or thing in two successive panels... Being able to follow a narrative while keeping to those rules is TOUGH. And if you have to add in another additional panel to split two images up, that's basically a panel that doesn't further the story, but just lets you meet the rules... Which totally kills the whole process. So yeah.

    Thanks again for this week's article. It *REALLY* has me thinking about things I never even realized I should be thinking about. Gah. I'll go ahead and see if I can come up with a third and (hopefuly) final attempt to clear all the hurdles, have no questions, etc.

    Blah. Thanks again, Lee. I'm off to learn some more. Muahah.
    Yes, it would be a pass.

    Whether there's too much of Jenny mourning or not is immaterial to the assignment. Again, you're taking your eye off the ball, which, in this case, is the assignment.

    What you should consider, before next week, is why you feel the need to call out camera shots to make your editorial case. We'll discuss that next week, but I feel it's getting in the way.

    HAD you not used camera shots, you would have realized both image were "inside the truck" and, perhaps, not been on the fence about making a change.

    But you allowed the shots to mask the real effect of your images.

    It's something to consider, again, for next week.

    --Lee



  9. LeeNordling Guest

    Here's an exercise to consider, for those who aren't already doing it: read all the posts, especially the submissions by others.

    Before reading my response/grade, grade it yourself (in your head), then see what I have to say.

    If you nailed it, great; if you missed it, consider why you missed it.

    If you think I'm wrong or don't understand why I might have let something go, ask about it.

    This is a discourse.

    You will learn as much, if not more, from others than from me.

    This thought comes courtesy of Roberts.

    --Lee



  10. RonaldMontgomery Guest

    PAGE ONE
    Panel 1: Night. A weathered, cracked building facade. Embedded in the worn stone is an old-fashioned clock. The hands on the glowing clock dial tell us it's two.

    Panel 2: Inside a bus station. Painted on a long cinderblock wall is the word GREYHOUND. Below the letters, a shabby family (mom, dad, sis and baby brother), all sleep uncomfortably in metal and plastic chairs, heads resting on overstuffed backpacks or on one another.

    Panel 3: Outside the station. Girl Intense stands at the side of a Greyhound bus in her baggy uniform and All-Star shoes, a backpack on, flashlight hanging from a thick black belt. She holds a cellphone with one hand and stares down at it, her face worried.

    Panel 4: Inside the station. An old man in overalls, hunched over, mops the floor in front of a darkened ticket counter.

    Panel 5: Outside. We're looking down at the face of Girl Intense's phone as she holds it, the billows of her uniform and her clownish All-Stars in the background. The cellphone display is bright, and it reads NO MESSAGES.

    Panel 6: Inside the station, a battered plastic suitcase sits alone by a drinking fountain.


    PAGE TWO
    Panel 1: Outside by the Greyhound bus, a skeevy guy has sidled up to Girl Intense and her leers at her. She's staring the other way, arms crossed.

    Panel 2: Outside at the front doors of the bus station. Big trashcans on both sides of the door overflow with drink cups, dirty diapers, food wrappers, etc. A tired security guard sags against one of the trashcans.

    Panel 3: At the bus side, a great gust of wind blows hard against the skeevy guy and Girl Intense. He's covered his face, his loose jacket blown open. She stands in the wind, face turned upward, as the wind blows back her thin straight hair. She's smiling.

    Panel 4: Above the clock in the building facade hovers Jerome. He's an angel, dressed all in white: high dollar basketball sneakers, white sweatpants, white thermal shirt and stocking cap, full white Wal-Mart bags in each hand, hovering with white angel's wings. He has a crooked grin.

    Panel 5: At the side of the bus. The skeevy guy is gone. Girl Intense still smiles upward, but her eyes are closed. Her phone has been put away and she holds her unlit flashlight, clasped in both hands and pointing upward, to her chest.
    Last edited by RonaldMontgomery; Saturday, April 10, 2010 at 06:24 AM.



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